About @Jason_IIATMS

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59 thoughts on “Montero and Nunez for Greinke: Would you have done it?

  1. Is this a trick question? :)

    Honestly, if they really said no to that offer because of a ridiculously ignorant belief about clinical anxiety disorders, I'm going to be extremely angry. That's just absurd.

  2. All we had to give up was Montero and Nunez? And we didn't????? I sure hope Cash has one helluva Plan D, because so far A, B (Crawford), and C (Greinke) have gone down the tubes.

    Can hardly wait for a return to the days of the .500 Yankees. Shoot – we even got aced out, and missed out on Wang. Guess we're down to a reunion with Pavano, Clemens, and R. Johnson.

    I'll still be watching, but unless the brain trust pulls one big azzed rabbit out of their hat, I sure won't be booking my Series (or even playoff) tickets just yet.

  3. No. I'm not trading Montero. I have concerns about Greinke in a larger market, but I would have absolutely traded for him if the deal was right.

  4. I would not have. There are enough concerns about Greinke's anxiety disorder and focus to make this a no go. Montero should be held onto either to have a legitimate shot at filling the void at catcher or traded for a "can't miss" guy a Nunez was quite versatile covering for our aging infielders, not to mention the team really sees something in him. I'd trade them for a Cliff Lee or a King Felix, but not Greinke (all the best to him).

    Stepping back for a minute regarding the no trade clause, I think that was just good business on his agent's part. Why not say no to the Yankees and seek a million or two to waive it? You know they'll pay it if they are interested. I don't think that can always be interpreted as a lack of desire to play for them.

  5. I posted this elsewhere, but I still think the only way to get a potential front-line starter to the Yankees is Montero-for-Garza.

  6. I find it hard to believe that KC would have done that deal. Apparently they have not been very interested in Montero due to the strength of their own catching prospects. They probably would have added 1/3 of the Bs + another picting prospect

  7. There are sure a TON of people on the interwebs this morning talking about anxiety orders and Greinke…
    Who is to say that it wasn't a one time thing from an unbalanced diet combined with people comparing him to "Greg Maddux with a better fastball"? Not to mention he has been the only brightspot on that team for so long, and he could have literally stayed in the shadow of CC while he was here.

    If you don't have a PHD let's stop talking about the anxiety and talk about how good he would have looked in pinstripes! I just hope my man Montero becomes the star we all are longing for.

  8. I would have done it knowing only what I know about Grienke. There may be more to his problems than what SAD, and he said his family didn't want to go to NY. Given that most teams would be able to match or beat the Montero-Nunez package, I really question whether this is true.

  9. Maybe it's a gamble by Cashman? If the Brewers aren't contenders at the deadline, they might be able to get Greinke off them for less than what they would've had to give the Royals.

  10. Jason, the question you posed is a close call. Would I have pulled the trigger on that deal? Probably not. But if the Yankees HAD made that trade, I would not have criticized it. Ultimately, I hope that Cashman & Co. made their decision based on more and better information than I have.

    I start with the question of whether you ever trade hitting for pitching. Baseball is an unpredictable game, but as a general rule hitters are a bit more predictable than pitchers. Granted, the future performance of a major-league tested pitcher like Greinke may be more predictable than the hitting of a top prospect like Montero. Again, this is a close call to me.

    I am concerned that KC seemed so eager to trade Greinke. What was the hurry? There seemed to be a concern that Greinke was going to have a poor start to the 2011 season and that his trade value would drop. However, his trade value seemed to have dropped a great deal over the past month. At the start of this process, KC was reportedly seeking the sun and the moon for Greinke. But from the little I've read, it looks like Greinke was traded for marginal prospects and replacement-level players. The package that KC ultimately accepted strikes me as a lot worse (from KC's perspective) than Montero and Nunez.

    I think there's something odd going on here that hasn't been reported. Yes, the Yankees seemed uninterested in Greinke at nearly any price. But there are 28 teams other than the Yankees and the Brewers who should have been interested in a talented ex-Cy Young winner, who should have been able to offer a better package than the one put forward by the Brewers.

    Ultimately, I think we should take a couple of steps back. The Yankees have been decidedly un-Yankee like during this post-season. They did not pursue Crawford or Werth or Greinke. We haven't discussed this yet, but their pursuit of Cliff Lee was not nearly as aggressive as I had expected. The feeling I have is that the Yankees' brass is satisfied with the core of the current roster, with or without Pettitte.

    I had wondered, given that we're entering into the negotiations for the next collective bargaining agreement, whether the Yankees might keep a low profile this post-season. There's been talk of increasing the luxury tax to a level that would discourage the Yankees from exceeding the tax threshold, and I thought that the Yankees might want to defuse this issue by keeping next season's payroll to a minimum. (I even started to write a post on this … but two weeks ago the talk was that the Yanks might sign Lee AND Crawford, and it then seemed silly to me to write about belt-tightening in the Bronx. It doesn't seem so silly now.)

    Greinke might have been demanding a pay increase as the cost of waiving his no-trade clause, and the Yankees might have decided that he wasn't worth the extra pay he was demanding.

    There's too much I don't know to evaluate the Yankees' decision. But I still think it's interesting, how QUIET this post-season has been for the Yankees.

  11. Greinke is coming off a losing season with a >4 ERA. Why trade arguably the best offensive prospect in baseball for that kind of production? A guy with Montero's offensive potential is pretty rare in the post-PEDs era, even if he does end up a DH.

  12. Everyone knows the Yanks are somewhat in red alert mode post the Cliff Lee debacle. That's why KC over-asked here. Brewer fans are happy because they know they're plan is "2011 or not in another 20 years".

    Just because Greinke was the prettiest left at the dance doesn't mean he can macarena in NYC. Very glad that Cashman didn't go for this one. John is spot on about the CC deal and I'm elated that we didn't give Lee the same. There isn't a wealth of talent to be acquired this off season. Not the kind the Yankees need. As much as it pains me to say so — we can't pull off the haymaker acquisition annually. This would be a good season to replenish the prospect ranks and not panic so that we might have another run like we did 96-2009 (with some homegrown contributors).

  13. I would have pulled the trigger and take a chance. He is a young pitcher, get him via trade for 2 prospects not 4, and didn't spend money for him. We took a chance and traded Melky for Javier who was a total bust and looked like a bust before the trade. At least we know Grienke is capable of pitching in the American League.

  14. If you read all the post even people who would have accepted the trade you will notice something "i would take a chance"

    You do not trade your #1 asset who is set to debut this coming year and fill a future hole in your team for a chance. Listen every trade has a risk if we trade for Upton there is a risk he doesn't pan out in NY, If trade for Felix his numbers will get worse(except his wins) or he could completely flop in NY, even when we tried to get Cliff multiple times someone who is a lot older and has back problems there are potential downfalls

    All 3 trades there are risks but never will you hear "i will take a chance." You know what you are trading for and you know what you will get. Grienke is a major league player a ex-Cy young winner, yet he seems to carry more risks than any other ace.

    I have said times before i would rather have Grienke than pay Lee for 7 years, that still holds true but the Yanks and Royals farm system just does not mesh. Kansas needs position players/middle of the line up type guys, they have a surplus in talented pitching. The idea of giving up a package of Montero and Nunez just seems to costly, we are fixing one hole by using pieces that will create another.

  15. Zuh, I meant to say 2008, which certainly wasn't Cy Young stuff. Finals hangover, I assure you (I get a C to your C-), but that 4.17 ERA was uncharacteristic of how well he pitched, and the wins… well, let's just not talk about wins.

  16. I swear I just read on Twitter somewhere that the Royals wanted Montero, Nunez, and two pitchers.

    Is it a crime that I am starting to believe in the Montero hype? I really think the kid is our catcher of the future, and for some reason it would kill me to see him be great somewhere else.

    But I guess it's still a thing of probability. And Grienke is already really good, while Montero still has a lot to prove. I still don't think I'd pull the trigger.

  17. KC wouldn't have accepted that trade. But I still wouldn't have offered it even if they would have. Trading the best hitting prospect in the Minors for a pitcher with a no trade to NY BECAUSE of an emotional disorder (Sorry Brien, the no trade was not for leverage–There was slim to no chance of Greinke ever ending up in New York or Boston. Too much pressure).

    Montero is a stud. Give him a chance, unless King Felix can be had.

  18. Here are some observations and analyses. Would appreciate it if someone would provide greater clarity:

    1) The Yankees don't trade Montero, their best hitting prospect, (and a couple of other guys who may or may not make a MLB impact) for Cliff Lee. But they wanted to, and very nearly did.

    2) The Yankees sign Russ Martin for $4mm. He is under control for another year (via arbitration). This gives them even more flexibility at the catcher position than they already had considering they already had Posada (DH + maybe 1-2 days catching a week to rest other regulars), Cervelli (ugh … but is still young and very cheap), and Montero (who they presumably were going to ease into starting catching duties the way they let Posado do just over 10 years ago).

  19. I don't understand why everyone is assuming the Yankees didn't pull the trigger because of his anxiety issue. That would be dumb, but it's not the only explanation. I think the Yankees may just feel that Montero can catch and if he can do that reasonably well he is probably more valuable than 2 years and 27 million dollars to Greinke. There is also Nunez who I believe the team thinks can start.

    Hope Pettitte comes back this year. Make a big run at Darvish next year and hope some of the pitchers develop.

  20. Monetero & Nunez…sign me up!

    According to reports elsewhere that wouldn't have gotten it done. It's being reported that it would have taken Banuelos or Betances and a AAA pitcher like Warren or Noesi. That seems like way to much and I'm glad that it didn't happen at that price.

  21. Sherman reported this morning that, in addition to Montero and Nunez, the Royals wanted either Banuelos or Betances, and one of Nova/Phelps/Warren/Noesi. If true, that would have been way too much to give up, in my opinion.

  22. I didn't believe the tweet, but even if it were true I'm not comfortable trading for Greinke because I don't think he's ever going to produce like he did in '09. The 2.16 era was amazing, but he's never produced anything close to that before and didn't again last year. I don't know if the metrics can explain it or not, but trading 2.16 era price for a guy who's career number is closer to 3.82 would worry me. It's like giving up the farm for Jose Bautista and expecting him to lead the world in home runs again.