Open Thread: Ubaldo-mania in full effect

If you were waiting for the Ubaldo Jimenez trade talks to heat up, today was your day. Here’s a recap of today’s reports:

  • MLB.com’s Peter Gammons says the Rockies are “looking for two prime prospects, along with one or two big-league ready players, including a starting pitcher.”
  • SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Rockies and Yankees match up well in an article on SI.com. But of course, our readers knew that already.
  • Heyman tweeted this about Rockies 3B Ty Wigginton-“wigginton’s name came up in yankees-rox talk. could be good a-rod insurance”. The Rockies would probably like to move former 1st rounder Ian Stewart to 3B.
  • Buster Olney reports that with Jimenez’s inexpensive contract through 2013, there would be high production at a low cost for any team acquiring the right-hander, with team control and very little financial risk.
  • Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd told Troy Renck of the Denver Post that the Rockies would have to be “absolutely overwhelmed” to move Jimenez. Renck goes on to say “The Rockies aren’t shopping Jimenez. General manager Dan O’Dowd told me directly that he has no mandate to move money, that he’s not looking to sell.”
  • Jon Heyman had the biggest news of the day, the first reported trade proposal-“rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)”

Use this thread to kick around trade proposals, explain to your fellow commenters why their proposal makes no sense but yours is fabulous, or whatever else you want.

0 thoughts on “Open Thread: Ubaldo-mania in full effect

  1. I would love to get our hands on Ian Stewart. I would certainly be willing to up the ante in order to get Jimenez, and Ubaldo in one deal. Stewart could start at 3rd for Alex until he returns, and then possibly take over right field next year (if Swisher’s option is declined). Or he could DH if they do pick up Nick’s option.

  2. Seems like you are late on the Banuelos start. It’s 6:18 here (7:18 New York time), and the Trenton game is already over.

    Banuelos went 5.0 innings, allowed 5 hits, gave up 3 earned runs, walked an incredibly bad 5, and struck out 6. His complete and utter lack of control is really starting to scare me.

  3. Wow,
    First of all with the numbers Nova put up this yr in the american league, he would be at worst a number three starter in national league. Has anyone who loves Ubaldo really looked at his numbers this season in the national league? Now takes those numbers and add a run to his era in the american league. Is he now worth Montero, Banuelos, Betances and Nova? If anything he is worth Montero, Nova, and two other high end prospects not named Delin and Betances and Manny Banuelos.

  4. The Rockies are starting high obviously because they are going to have to lower their demand and wanted a ridiculous starting point hoping to maximize value for Jimenez. I would be willing to trade Betances more willingly than Banuelos, Warren, Nova, and Brett Marshall. In this trade they would immediate talent Nova and Warren, and Banuelos is about a year away, and Brett Marshall barring injuries is on pace to reach the majors in two. It is going to be tough to trade two of their top prospects for Jimenez, but I think he’ll do great with Larry Rothschild as the pitching coach away from Colorado’s ballpark. His home/road splits are glaring this year.

  5. Anyone trying to act like Ubaldo isn’t at the least an above average number 2 starter is fooling themselves.

    3.47 ERA, 3.36 FIP, 3.59 xFIP, 5.7 WAR, 8.17 K/9, 3.51 BB/9, 0.54 HR/9, 52.5 GB%
    2.88 ERA, 3.10 FIP, 3.60 xFIP, 6.3 WAR, 8.69 K/9, 3.74 BB/9, 0.41 HR/9, 48.8 GB%
    4.08 ERA, 3.42 FIP, 3.59 xFIP, 2.4 WAR, 8.08 K/9, 3.51 BB/9, 0.65 HR/9, 46.5 GB%

    Even with his velocity down to start the season he still has an FIP in line with his last 2 seasons, and the exact xFIP as last year. Add into the fact that he pitches in an environment even more hitter friendly than Yankee stadium, and it makes what he has done even more impressive.

    The fact that he limits home runs, and gets such good ground ball percentages for someone with his kind of swing and miss stuff only adds to his value.

    Not to mention he is only 27 years old, not even his physical prime yet, and he is only going to get better from here.

  6. Red Sox vs Rays on ESPN. I know it helps the Yankees make the playoffs if the Rays lose, but I can’t bring myself to root for the Red Sox.

  7. I would rather have either Sanchez or Nolasco from FLA than Jimenez, I dont want to give up all of that just to find out he cant make it in the AL EAST!

  8. I heard today that Clay Buchholz’s back is feeling no better, and even though he has had a shot he still has no timetable for return. With Lackey performing badly, and Buchholz out for an indefinite period of time, the Sox are hurting for starting pitching as well.

  9. well based on having control for the two years, that changes allot. And yes Chris I’ve seen him pitch quite a few times in fact. Actually look at his numbers broken down last year and this year. Last year his era was 5.00 in first two months, than he pitched lights out from july to august, than he pitched avg at best down stretch. A bit inconsistent. This year his era is over 4. I know your gonna say he’s pitched lights out over last five starts but he has been inconsistent. I know Chris you love the fact that he only let up two runs in Yankee stadium. I can name you a few dozen pitchers the yankees faced for the first time that shut them out. If you don’t buy the national league takes away a run from your era just look at the numerous upon numerous examples of pitchers pitching better in the national league. I mean for pete’s sake Ian kennedy is a virtual star and Karsten’s in the ace on pittsburgh staff. The league’s are different, it’s a fact. Ubaldo also has a jerky delivery and there has been speculation, even on mld network that there is concern of future arm issues based on that delivery. So noooo, I’m not willing to trade more than Montero, Nova (who I think is a young kid with a live arm that will pitch really well after seasoning more in the NL) warren, Noesi. that’s who I give up and if it’s not enough than so be it. I refuse to risk trading three top studs for a guy with a jery motion who has been said to have attitude problems as well.

  10. Reading anything baseball related out Colorado these days, and it sounds like beat writers are writing specifically to beg O’Dowd not to trade him. haha.

  11. Montero, Betances, Banuelos, and Nova for Jimenez? Fuck that!!!

    I’m rooting for Boston to win tonight so the Yanks can be in position to be the 5.5, 7.5 or 9.5 games up on TB after Thursday.

  12. Assuming the Yanks and Red Sox make the playoffs, who do the Yankees draw in the first round if the Yankees are the division winner? The wildcard?

  13. I read Andrew Marchand say that Hughes performing well could making trade for Ubaldo not necessary. I don’t think trades should be mae that way. Either they like him, and want him, or they don’t. How Hughes does in a few starts shouldn’t have a bearing on the value they place on Jimenez.

  14. One heck of a pitching duel going on between Beckett and Niemann in Tampa. 0-0, three hits for both teams combined going into the 8th.

  15. This is as good a thread as any for this subject. I would be interested to know what peoples thought’s are on Banuelos and Betances’s futures.

    This whole Jimenez thing has really helped me see just how valued these two guys are by our fans. It seems like everyone I run into on the subject has both of them pegged as top of the rotation starters, and while I agree that they have that upside I don’t think that is the most likely outcome. I believe it is just as likely that they both end up in the pen, as they both end up as top end starters.

    I think the most likely outcome however is that one makes it in the rotation in some way, and one ends up moved to the bullpen for one reason or another. I’m not sure which is more likely to which at this point, because I’ve always been more partial to Banuelos. Though his lack of control has surprised me this year. I still lean more towards Manny, but I don’t think it’s as far a lean as it once was.

    Given the state of current events going on, it seems like a good time for this discussion. Thoughts?

  16. A pop up hit the catwalk at the Trop and broke a lightbulb. There’s glass on the field.

  17. To get Jimenez, the Yankees are going to have to give up Betances or Banuelos, and Montero. They would have to add Nova as well with a 4th/5th starter ceiling. Jimenez’s contact is very cheap and he is currently 27. He is entering his prime and the Yankees would have those years for cheap. If he continues to pitch the way he has recently, it would be a trade that would benefit both teams, Yankees short term and the Rockies long term. Jimenez is a special talent and can help contribute this year and the next few. He has frontline stuff, and with the way the pitching market is looking, this could be the best way to bolster our pitching staff for the coming years. If Jimenez was acquired, then you have him being a reliable No. 2 pitcher for the Yankees behind Sabathia. If Phil Hughes return is legit and A.J. Burnett finds some consistency, then you would have to look at the Yankees as the favorites to win it all.

    This trade isn’t just for this year either. With Jimenez being 27, he could be a cost effective ace for the Yankees behind CC. Although the price is high for Jimenez, it is well worth the risk with his pitching repertoire. This is a very difficult choice for the Yankees, but they will have to consider any option that would help bolster their pitching staff.

  18. My assessment of Manny banuelos is he becomes a top end lefty starter somewhere between a Jimmy key and Johann santanna. He’s a lefty. You don’t trade leftyd. Watching dellin betances pitch a few games in spring training and you see this Kidd has overpowering stuff with a real good curve and ok change. I see big time stuff. I don’t trade either pitcher. Even though I can’t wait to see Jesus montero hit in majors and hear he is compared to Miguel Cabrera with bat I trade him based on not having a position and he can be replaced. But his bat alone will make him an all star one day and Yankee fans upset we traded him.

  19. Lee’s best seasons…

    .305/.366/.525, .379 wOBA, 31 HRs, 8.2 % BB rate, 13.1 % K rate.
    .300/.355/.540, .379 wOBA, 37 HRs, 8.3 % BB rate, 9.4 % K rate.
    .303/.354/.528, .370 wOBA, 32 HRs, 7.6 % BB rate, 9.0 % K rate.
    .314/.368/.569, .396 wOBA, 28 HRs, 7.7 % BB rate, 10.2 % K rate.

    If Montero puts up 4 seasons like that I would be very happy.

    Montero has always been called a .300, and 30 guy, which is what Lee has been. comparing him to Miguel Cabrera I think is quite far fetched. Cabrera is a step up from these numbers.

  20. “Dude division or wildcard who gives a fuck? Wildcard teams have won plenty of World Series in recent times.

    Fuck burning Sabathia. Go for what enables him to start Games 1 and 5 in the ALDS. The only way he should be burned is a one-game playoff to make the postseason, that’s it, and that’s debatable because Burnett is making $16.5M to be the #2 and the Yanks have a better chance to win it all with him starting Game 163 and CC starting Games 1 and 5 in the ALDS, 3 and 7 in the ALCS, and 3 and 7 in the WS. Someone besides CC will have to step up in October. Anyone who cries “CC should’ve started Game 163!!!” oh shut up. And you wanted Burnett starting Games 1 and 5 of the ALDS or Burnett Game 1 and CC just Game 5?

    The Yanks could win the division and still play on the road all postseason if they draw say Detroit and Texas and both have better regular season records.

    Realistically, I think the Yankees would have HFA for at least the ALDS or the ALCS if they won the division which is why I want them to win it, but winning the division title is overrated. It’s meaningless if the Yanks draw Boston in the ALCS because Boston has shown they can win at Yankee Stadium in the postseason, see Games 6 and 7 of the 2004 ALCS and 2011. Do you honestly see Texas, L.A., Cleveland, or Detroit knocking Boston out of the first round? I don’t. And do you see Sabathia vs. Beckett in Games 3 and 7 being easier for the Yankees to win if Game 7 was in NY? I don’t. Beckett closed out the 2003 WS there against a younger, better Pettitte.

    It’s also meaningless in this year’s WS cuz it begins in the NL park which means no DH for up to 4 games and definitely no DH for Game 7.”
    ——————————————————————————————————————————-

    You missed the point. I meant we could be in a scenario where the Red Sox win the division and we end up in a dog fight for the Wild Card with the Rays. In other words if we don’t burn CC we don’t make the playoffs. I said it isn’t likely, but it isn’t out of the question.

    Could we tone down the cursing some please? It doesn’t make the point any clearer, and I am very positive kids come on this site. I don’t have a problem with it persnally, but you never know who you might offend. Not trying to start anything, just asking politely.

  21. Farnsworth actually didnt pitch that bad tonight for the Rays…..wish I could have said that 5-6 years ago.

  22. Funny thing. Delin and king Felix are both big pictures in same mold. King Felix also had control issues at one point in his development. You don’t give up an arm like betances with montero with two more prospects for ubaldo Jimenez. Just listening to mark feinsand and he agrees 100%.

  23. The price is steep but if the Rox are game, then negotiating it “down” to Montero, Betances, Nova, and Warren lies in the realm of possibility.

    My package offers two big league ready players in Montero and Nova. Betances offers some intriguing projection as a potential 2/3 starter, and if he gets those walks down, we’re talking about a 2-guy AT LEAST. Warren offers some SP depth and he’s a contender to make the SP rotation next season.

    This is a quality package. Banuelos stays in the farm to hone his craft another season. Given his age, I would say the Rox would want him included, but given Ubaldo Jimenez’s own set of “issues” (correctable as it may be), including Banuelos just screams OVERKILL.

  24. Betances has overpowering stuff. Maybe you are right in that he will be more like AJ Burnett. But his ceiling is so high that he is worth risk and to say he will never be Jimenez is in my opinion over hyping Jimenez. Jimenez just as mark feinsand stated is not the guy you back up the truck and give up two of your top three prospects for. You do that for king Felix Clayton kershaw Josh Johnson when healthy. I just don’t put Jimenez in that class. Neither does colorodo if they are considering trading him.

  25. Ubaldo Jimenez is a highly overrated pitcher. He walks WAY too many hitters (always 3.5+/9IP). His best stat is the low HR/9, but it’s because of his unsustainably low HR/FB rate. He simply will not maintain a 7% HR/FB rate. And when he starts giving up more homers, those high walk rates are going to destroy him.

  26. On trading Banuelos… Let’s see, we’ve got 4 or 5 very young lower level piching prospects with supposed high ceilings that are being hyped as potential big leaguers: Morton, Rutszki, Encinas, DeLuca, Marshall among others… these guys are encountering all kinds of problems as they develop & move through the system… They are young so that’s expected, right?

    Banuelos is a AA pitcher who KNOWS how to pich, has 3 plus or above average pitches AND he is approximately the SAME AGE as these guys. They can have Betances, Montero and Nova plus whatever, I’m keeping Banuelos.

  27. Heyman is reporting that the Rockies don’t want Montero to be the center piece for this trade. They do want Montero, but they want him as the second piece. Which would suggest they value Banuelos as the main key to getting Jimenez.