Yankees re-sign Andruw Jones

19 thoughts on “Yankees re-sign Andruw Jones

  1. Scott

    I think you are being disingenuous by factoring in the incentives to your calculations. Presumably they are PA based, and if he reaches them then NY needed him (i.e. Montero a bust, Swisher hurt) or Joe is stupid. With luxury tax the base is ~ 3M, right? That doesn't seem bad.

    • BrienJackson

      If the incentives are PA based, I'm assuming that Jones thinks they're reasonable. Either that or the Yankees bid well over what anyone else was offering to get Jones to sign this early.

      • Hank

        When a guy is paid a 2mil base and the min he can be paid is ~500K, I don't know how someone can make the claim that either the incentives are easy to reach or the Yankees "Bid well over anyone else" with basically no information available

        When you say they bid well over anyone else, what would you consider "well over" anyone else? The absolute max they overpaid him on the base, unless he was only getting minor league offers, is ~1.5MIl, and I highly doubt he was only getting league min offers

        "Andruw had offers of a higher base salary from some other clubs," said the source. "But he took less money to return to the Yankees. He had a good experience there last season and wanted to come back."

        per Marchand on ESPNNY (so take with a grain of salt). Regardless of Marchand I think it's reasonable to assume he was getting offers in the 1-2mil range and the "bid well over" is spin.

        After the Kuroda stuff and the comments, you seem to have an agenda. If they went league min and saved 1.5mil, where exactly would you spend it? What are the better purposes you allude to for 1.5mil? (Long man in the pen? 2nd util infielder?)

  2. alain

    excellent, now sign that japanese SS (say god bye Chavez), and lock The MMA cage with all starting pitchers candidates (CC would be the referee).

  3. D Goodstein

    The Yanks continue to undervalue Gardner! What is the deal. He just keeps getting better and better and the general. Office continues to undervalue him. Makes me wonder.

    • Ben

      How is this undervaluing Gardner? We currently don't have a 4th outfielder that brings the known value that Jones brings. And Gardner has yet to hit consistently well against lefties. Jones did well against lefties last year and added power.

      • BrienJackson

        Gardner has a career .349 OBP against LHP to a .354 mark against right-handers.

        • Ben

          And his power? Resting Granderson and Gardner every now and then against a southpaw and bringing Jones in does not damage the team nearly as much. We could have given Eduardo Nunez more reps in the outfield, though I don't know if that makes sense. Jorge Vazquez is a first baseman in the minors and would be worse than Marcus Thames, nevermind Jones. Justin Maxwell shows potential to hit just as much as he shows potential to get injured. Jones was the safe bet here and was brought in at the right price. I'd say Chavez would be a bit more of a waste of money than Jones is.

          The Yankees, unless prices come down or there is a schism in the front office, have tied their wagon to their rotation, which you and a lot of people think is a bad decision. That is fine. There are numbers to back up both positions. But saying the Yankees are cheap one day and then saying the Yankees are overpaying for a fourth outfielder the next day is hypocritical.

          You don't like their strategy that's fine. I'll stick with their strategy as it won them 97 games last year. Obviously, no team stays the same, but this team has not significantly weakened or strengthened itself. Some fans call that an outrage, others call it good business. I hate bridging sports, but you did it so I guess it is fair, look at what the Steelers accomplished this year. They came in with the same team that lost the Super Bowl and everyone said they're old and done. They still might not advance, because like this past year's AL playoff picture, the field is level with all teams having obvious strengths and weaknesses. But they didn't overreact and they're in the hunt. You want to say the Yanks were lucky with what they got, fine. But taking a 'if it ain't broke, don't touch it,' strategy to a 97-win team is hardly a bad strategy. You can say I told you so all you want if this team fails, I'm just reserving my right to say that as well.

          • I don't know, Ben. I don't know that Jones could be enough better than Gardner at the plate to make up for the ridiculous defense that Gardner brings to the table (which isn't to say he's a slouch at the plate, or to ignore his baserunning either). Looking at the major league leaders in UZR/150 for 2011 is flat out amusing. Pedroia comes in 2nd at 19.3….compared to Gardner's 31.0.

            Jones is best suited for the Cecil Fielder/Ruben Sierra role — a scary bat on the bench to bring in when we possibly need a home run. But unfortunately, that's a role that math tends to say isn't actually valuable.

            I'm not nearly as worried about the $2 million in resources spent as I am about losing ABs for the 2nd most valuable batter on the Yankees in 2010 (in 5/6 of a full season) and the 3rd most valuable batter on the Yankees in 2011 (again, in less than a full season). At least by WAR.

          • roadrider

            I wouldn't put so much faith in UZR. Yes, Gardner has superior defensive skills (and I don't need UZR to know that) but I'm not really convinced about the translation of those defensive metrics to player value ratings. And how valuable is a superior defensive LF over a merely effective one anyway? Gardner's defensive skills are probably wasted at that position.

            I don't think Gardner is any better than an average to sub-par hitter (lifetime OPS+ 91; wRC+ 105). He has little extra-base power, his walks and OBP numbers regressed a bit last season and he's shown a tendency to prolonged slumps. I think 2010 will end up being an outlier for him as he is past the age where major improvement is likely and I think the league caught up with him to some extent. He also benefited from a spike in BABIP to .340 in 2010 compared to his lifetime number of .317.

            I'm indifferent to the Jones signing – he's probably the best they can do for a fourth OF but I wouldn't bat an eye if they went in a different direction. I'm not worried about losing some AB from Gardner as I don't think he's nearly as valuable at the plate as his supporters think he is.

          • BrienJackson

            What he said.

            The issue isn't so much that Jones takes anything *away* from the roster, but that he's unlikely to add much value to it given the fact that the rest of the roster is stacked with lefty-mashers. I think people have forgotten that the reason Jones was relatively valuable last season is that he was quasi-platooned with Jorge Posada, who of course was abysmal against southpaws in 2011. Assuming that Montero is the primary DH in 2012 and is reasonably strong against lefties, there shouldn't be a similar effect this year, so the skills that Jones brings to the table are largely superfluous. The only way for him to get much playing time is through a platoon with Gardner, and such a small sample likely won't allow him to aggregate much more value than Gardner would in those plate appearances, at least not once you account for defense.

            All things considered, I would think that if you were going to invest in any spot on the bench this year, it should be getting someone who can play third base and hit reasonably well, given the likelihood that you'll need someone to play 60+ games there with A-Rod's recent health issues.

          • Hank

            Andruw Jones last year:

            145 AB's as an OF
            10 AB's PH
            30 as a DH – This apparently is a quasi platoon where he got most of his value?

            PS – Jones posted 1.3 fWAR last year. For a bench player that is fairly significant. especially when, contrary to your assertion, not a lot of that value was at DH.

          • But, if you’ll recall, for quite some time when Jones was playing LF, Girardi was using the DH spot for A-Rod and Jeter. So, in effect, Gardner and Posada were being platooned with Posada and Nunez, and the biggest impact of that swap was exchanging Posada’s bat for Jones’

          • Hank

            But if you'll recall, you said most of his value last year came as a platoon DH- that is simply not true, rather than own it, you evolve the argument., so let's look at your newest claim

            And well that is also flat out wrong. Jones was taking Gardners's AB's (and some from Swisher due to injury)…. you can continue to try to make this about Jones effectively takng DH AB's away from Posada (bia Jeter/ARod DHing), but Jones was clearly playing over Gardner, not Posada and the actual game logs support this and not your assertion of Jeter and ARod getting most of this.

            Sept DH's while Jones was in OF:
            - Cano 2
            - Tex 1
            - Montero – 8 (this to me is the best indication of how Girardi views Jones as Montero will be the DH next year and it certainly didn't stop Jones from playing the OF)
            - Posada 1
            - Jeter + ARod… yeah that would be ZERO

            Aug DH's (with Jones in OF)
            - Swisher 2
            - Jeter 2

            Jul DH's (with Jones in OF)
            - Posada 2
            - pitcher 1 (NL game, but shows Girardi's logic…. it's OF AB's he's taking ABs from not Posada)
            - Granderson 1
            - Swisher 4
            – Jeter 1

            Just looking at games after the allstar break I see 25 games by Jones in the OF and Jeter/ARod combining to DH in all of 3 of those games…. not quite the picture you are trying to paint.

            Do you know who the most common DH was when Jones played the OF? Yup, that name would be Posada (the guy you claim he was effectively taking AB's from as Jeter/ARod supposedly took those DH AB's while Jones was in the field)

            Without meaning to be too harsh.. rather than asking others to "recall that" or mention "some people may have forgotten", maybe you want to actually check the facts against your own recall (which seems a bit iffy on this subject).

          • BrienJackson

            "But if you'll recall, you said most of his value last year came as a platoon DH…"

            No I didn't, I said he was "quasi-platooned with Jorge Posada." I never said those PA's came as a DH, hence the "quasi" nature of the platoon.

          • Hank

            Brien, pleas stop trying to win every argument and think about this logically.

            ARod/Jeter were playing at Posada's expense, not Jones. I just showed you 25 games where Jones was in the OF while Jeter/Arod were DH'ing in 3 of them (heck 8 of them had Montero DH'ing which is what you are suggesting won't happen next year?).

            This was about Girardi right or wrong) playing Jones over Gardner…. otherwise it would be Gardner in LF while Arod and Jeter continued to get their DH rest days…. you are linking 2 SEPARATE decision together because you want to, but there is no evidence to suggest they are linked.

            If anything the evidence shows they aren't linked given the vast # of DH's that were playing when Jones was in the OF.

            And even if you dismiss all this (which you seem to want to), 2 mil for a 4th OF is a good sign for a team that is hoping to compete. Unless you are going to platoon Montero at DH with a lefty, would it make any sense to have a lefty hitting 4th OF?

          • BrienJackson

            "ARod/Jeter were playing at Posada's expense, not Jones."

            Well, let's run through that logical substitution:

            Jones plays for Gardner.
            A-Rod/Jeter play for Posada.
            Nunez plays for A-Rod/Jeter, except that A-Rod/Jeter are playing. They're in their normal place in the batting order and everything. So that doesn't make any sense on its face.

            Now I guess we could say that Jones is playing for Gardner and Nunez is playing for Posada, but if we do that then Jones' marginal value decreases significantly. If you're seeking to maximize Jones' marginal value you need to imagine him taking Posada's place against southpaws AND giving Jeter/A-Rod a half day off.

          • Hank

            Good grief man… You are trying to make this much more complex than it is.

            On days Girardi wanted to rest ARod/Jeter, Girardi was forced to play Nunez ( when Chavez went down).

            If Girardi wanted to rest Jeter/ARod he had two options
            1) Play Nunez, give the other guy the day off
            2) Play Nunez, have the other guy DH and give Posada the day off.

            THAT was the decision process and it really is that simple. It's not about marginal value, it's about giving your vets the day off and having limited options. Jones is not part of this decision process unless Girardi would consider DH'ing Jones over ARod or Jeter (which he clearly refused to do, even though in the case of Jeter it would have made sense)

            The ARod/Jeter rest days next year are going to eat into Montero's AB's (unless he catches). Or Girardi will have to give them the full day off. The impact to Jones is that he will likely get 0 AB's at DH (as it will either be Montero or position player rest day). but since he only had 30 AB's at DH last year that is not a major impact.

            The problem with your marginal analysis is that on days when Jeter/ARod rest (either completely off or at DH), Nunez had to play (think of it like a sunk cost).. if you are looking at marginal value than you need to look at Jeter/ARod vs Posada or vs Jones at DH

            And I'll ask once again since you continue to ignore it… how many times was Jeter/ARod DH'ing while Jones was in the OF? This quasi platoon which you claim existed…. how often was it actually deployed when Jones was in the OF?

            (Again the answer to this question will surprise you)

  4. MikeD

    The Yankees are stronger by platooning Jones and Gardner. Adds depth. Minor cost to the Yankees.

Comments are closed.